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Barefoot Ted:
Get inside your vehicle and start the two feet of moving and just keep going until you get to where you want to go, and if you happen to be where you want to go, just stay there.

Florian:
Welcome to this first English episode of this podcast. It's with Barefoot Ted, known from the born to Run book from Christopher McDougall. And I hope you enjoyed this episode and may learn something from it and get some inspiration for feeling great when you taking a run or just being happy when you run. I hope you will enjoy this talk as much as I. You may notice that Ted will introduce this episode twice because we already talked and I recorded this part and Ted already said so many things I want to share with you. So I put this directly behind the normal introduction. Yeah, I enjoyed this part also. And don't be confused about the introduction if you want to know anything else. What hasn't been in this episode, just let me let me know or just take context to Barefoot Ted himself and. Yeah, have a great day. Thank you. Hello, Ted. Ted McDonald, you are living in California, and you were part of the first run in the copper canyons along side with the Tarahumara, and it was a great view on your journey in the book, Born to Run from Christopher McDougall. And yeah, that was the part where I was giving my attention to you. And you are the founder of Luna Sandals. And your mission is to encourage people to be comfortable in their own two feet and thus with themselves and with others with or without shoes. Well, if that isn't a great mission and yeah, I'm really, really happy that you took time to be here. We are recording from Germany to California. So Ted is in the morning and the evening and. Yeah, great for me for having you here. Thank you. Ted, welcome.

Barefoot Ted:
Thank you. Well, it's a beautiful sunny day here in Santa Barbara, California. And I, I like as I say often, I like voting with my body and here I am. I voted very well. And it's a pleasure to be speaking with you. I'm excited to share some of some of the insights I've gained over the the year seven years old. So I'm starting to feel like I'm more like an elder. And I what have I learned in this life of mine and born to run the book and the story that the book's about has played an important role in helping me gain some insights into some topics that I was fascinated with running in particular, and just human potential. And so it's going to be I'm sure we're going to have an interesting conversation. Well, it's a pleasure. It's a pleasure. Just before coming to speak with you, I you know, it's not very early in the morning anymore, but I still hadn't gone outside and taken some sunlight and breathe and do a little run. So I just took a little break about 30 minutes ago and went on a nice little run. And it was a beautiful, sunny day today. Very common. And that's why I voted with my body to live in Santa Barbara, California. You know, the vote with your body is a powerful one. If you ever want to like I don't feel empowered, will get get inside your vehicle and start the two feet of moving and just keep going until you get to where you want to go. And if you happen to be where you want to go, just stay there.

Florian:
That's something that I really, really took for me from the Born to Run book. So after this book, I was like, I have to run and I have to move and come in movement. And today I was also what I already was in the river. We have not so many degrees here, but quite sunny and was great cold and sunny.

Barefoot Ted:
Oh man. So many people who have not found an opportunity to get mentored or have the opportunity to get that experience of hot and cold and breathing. This is medicine better than all medicines known ever, ever. You know, it's the primal medicine hot called breathing. I mean, it's so basic no one can make money on it. Of course, no pharmaceutical can make money on it. We make money on it in the sense of by sharing these experiences and encouraging other people to do it, we create value in the world. And if people take that value and apply it to themselves, it's a kind of value that can radiate very quickly and benefit people. And when you benefit people, you build on the equity and value that the whole world carries in its conscious experience. So hot and cold, amigo, so many people don't understand. And then I'm running. I just want to say, you know, Born to Run is an incredible book because it makes an interesting argument from an evolutionary biological point of view that human beings have evolved to move over long distances on their own two feet, primarily because of a very interesting early strategy for hunting that some humans still do, called persistence hunting. And it is truly a remarkable way to get nutrient dense food. Right? You have to have you have to have a big brain that can understand footprints and strategy. You have to. Be able to have free hands so you could carry some extra water and maybe something to carry things back with, and you have to have incredibly complicated, complex, let's say, energetic wheel so that you can turn your feet over in the right pattern and suddenly find yourself basically flying just over the top of the world. You put all of those together and you grow, you and me. And I think that's marvelous. And the one thing, though, about the long distance running is it should always be. And this is what I'm striving for now. It's not about time and distance. That's those are modern concepts. They're wonderful. And they're interesting because they give us a way to measure and and compare and prepare. But being in tune with your own body such that you are moving smoothly and joyfully, breathing well and connected and aware of what you're doing while you're doing it. Now, that is a human birthright and a skill that should never be lost. And many people, we lose it because we get we're moderns, but I suggest become a little feral feral animal outside of civilization, but not quite in wilderness and benefiting from both. And as long as you don't eat the poison that you can get in civilization, you're going to probably be good to be right there on the middle. So that's a long way of answering, no question.

Florian:
Yeah, me too. I read in the book that you trained with a riksha. Do I remember correctly? Was it you?

Barefoot Ted:
Well, riksha is everything, as I guess some of your listeners know. It's a it's a two wheel vehicle pulled by a human usually to pull people or other things. And I got excited and interested in doing that kind of stuff early on because I had I had some access to some pony carts. But now I actually own a couple of Benteke from that I Shanghai what are known as rickshaws. The word is Japanese. That mean it's a generic riksha gen means human decky means power, sharp means wheel. So in 1880 or so, a generic riksha is a human powered wheel and I'm super fascinated and wheels because I think that when we run well, we become a wheel. We are the energetic wheel. We learn how to get into this very fluid flow state with the turnover of our feet and legs just right. And the smoother you can make that circle, the more enjoyable and efficient you become. And then, of course, adding wheels and particularly the bigger ones is sort of like being able to add a little battery because wheels become flywheels and if they're bigger, they kind of scale. So the bigger wheel you can get rolling, the more interesting extra dose of power you end up having that you can do interesting and different things that you couldn't do if you didn't have one. So I love wheels, I love flowing, I love balance, and I try to integrate all of that. I think that's a human sweet spot. That's that's what we're good at. And I love to you know, putting more of that into my daily life is definitely benefiting me and sort of a happy, healthy lifestyle.

Florian:
Yeah, absolutely. This very variegated or variations of movement. I saw on Instagram, for example, surfing and skateboarding. And that's all some movement I was also thinking about or I'm still thinking about to integrate it in my movement. Yeah. Lifestyle. So that's quite interesting.

Barefoot Ted:
Totally. And there's so many you know, once you begin, you know, I mean, I think it's really important to gain some basic fundamentals. There are certain fundamental human skills and many different teachers and approaches go that way. But I think ultimately applying these skills both on adventures and for recreation in in there's all these interesting nooks and crannies and things that human beings have found a way to celebrate being in the human body at one in the same time, still being fully human, but now applying this to sort of like, you know, take the and it's really about feel to. By the way, I really, really love tuning into that place where you have to find yourself right in the balance between too hot and too cold or, you know, too steep or too and like finding that balance and staying in it. That's what I'm always training to, how to stay comfortable at equilibrium. Even when you're doing something like even, for example, trying to run one hundred miles, you know, I start out and I and I'm training for that in for a hundred miler in August in Leadville, Colorado, like all above ten thousand feet, you know, three thousand meters and. But the whole race, but if you once you get it, if I can get myself into this state of being where I'm paying such good attention to everything that's happening to me as I'm moving, that becomes a practice that you can practice every day. Right. So are you breathing? Is anything getting unnecessary tension? Are you aware of how you're moving, how you're feeling? This kind of dialog helps in every situation you might be in and applying it to other things that give you joy and happiness so that you just become a broader, wider ranging, joy seeking creature. That's what I that's my you know, and that's from California surf and skate culture. You know, when I grew up in the 1970s in California, we were skateboarding. Skateboarding became really big for me because I wasn't living right on the beach. I mean, we would go to the beach and we would experience what the surfers were experiencing. We would surf and but we couldn't have that everywhere. Always, you know, the waves aren't always good.

Barefoot Ted:
You can't always get there. And skateboarding broke out as the sport that we you know, we didn't call a sport, but it was it was this exhilarating freedom to move through space in a way that was new. Yet at the same time, we were already barefoot. And it was we were outdoor kids in California at that time. It was before everybody lived indoors and played with, you know, screens. And so if you're outdoors, running around barefoot, climbing trees, climbing fences and the skateboard comes, well, it's it's a totally cool thing. And you suddenly feel this incredible amount of freedom to and then the technology just kept increasing and getting better. And we kind of felt like the new gods, you know, we because we were doing something the adults had never done. So I kind of came out of that a little bit difficult to control kind of child, and which made me a questioning child, which which allowed me to solve the riddle for myself of how to move better in the world. And it turned out it had something to do with getting back to the fundamentals of being in the incredible human body that we're in and learning how to use it so that it can give you the most, as we say in America, most bang for your buck. That means the greatest amount of good for the least amount of work, you know, what's that perfect balance.

Florian:
So you have already told we went to high tech stuff and you somehow managed to get back to these fundamentals. So how did you came to running to run barefoot? And what did inspire you to try this? And what was your journey on this on this long development of yourself?

Barefoot Ted:
Yeah, you know, it's it's a question that I've answered many times that I and I enjoy answering it because, you know, each one of us is going to have a unique journey naturally. But one thing we share is our common heritage is this body we're in. And that when my own when I finally started deciding, I really wanted to make one last effort. This was in my 30s. I wanted to make one last effort to see if I can find a way to solve the riddle of being able to move far in my own two feet. And in particular, when I was twenty, I had witnessed a 40 year old man who happened to be his father, was a famous politician in California at the time, and I was at his birthday party, which was happening after he had run a marathon, the L.A. Marathon. And I thought, oh, my God, a 40 year old person can run a marathon. Wow. So I put in my head at that time, well, as I am when I approach 40 some day, I'll give this you know, this will be my challenge anyway. In my thirties, late 30s had approach and I was not really at all certain if I were going to be able to run a marathon. And I started doing my research and my personal opinion was I'm kind of a bigger, more muscular person. Not not that I'm going to need certainly I'm going to need very, very good padded shoes. There was no doubt in my mind that that was going to be necessary because some experiences I had, I just thought there must be some good technology out there. Right. I thought there was going to be a great solution. So I messed around a little bit and I just wasn't getting any good. It was one hour was at Max for me and I would feel not that I was out of energy. But that I was so beat up, like so much physical jarring and trauma that it was like I just can't take it anymore. And I just thought those modern marathoners, they must be they must have some really great shoes. And are they taking painkillers or something?

Barefoot Ted:
What are they doing? So I did a little bit more research and then I found a Swiss company making a very interesting boot known as I Can Go Jump. And it was basically a kind of like a a little ski boot with some kind of a leaf spring on the soles. And I thought, oh, wow, this might be the new thing, you know? So I got those and I and I was so disappointed. It was like basically within 30 minutes I was feeling the same feeling I'd felt in an hour and the all the other running shoes. So I was like very confused about what I'm supposed to do. And I kind of was almost thinking that this is just obviously not for me, but some part of me wasn't really finished. And I since I had already grown up barefooted and I had already kind of lived barefoot lifestyle a lot because of California, it's just more common, right? It just because of the weather and outdoors and whatnot. Somehow I decided to plug into my computer something like barefoot hiking because that was something I liked to do. And I just thought, you know, maybe there's other people who think along these lines. And then I saw a link. Now this is like in nineteen twenty three, let's say twenty two thousand three. And I find this little like banner for websites running barefoot dotcom. I thought running barefoot and I clicked over there and I started reading and boom, I was in the rabbit hole we say and I suddenly started, I spent three days reading everything that this guy had written had linked to his his forum and everything. And I was like, oh wow. The logic behind it started to become impossible to not pay attention to. And the other thing was, I was going to be able to start experimenting without spending any money. I was like, you know, that was like, I like this. You know, self experimentation doesn't cost anything. Simply try programing the whole thing differently. And in this case, it was about the style, both the quickness of the turnover, the cadence. So how many footsteps per minute, along with landing more on the four foot rather than on the heel.

Barefoot Ted:
And when I combined those two things with my already well developed and functioning feet, that's an important point. My already well developed and functioning feet. And then I applied this quicker cadence and and this different landing pattern. It instantaneously it was like for jumping a fish, jumping back into the water. It was like my background, my history, my barefoot style lifestyle. And this new programing suddenly made it absolutely clear that I was on the right track. In other words, it it immediately felt better, immediately felt less jarring, and it was just simply beginning to build up and regain the flexibility and the muscle strength in my lower legs and feet. My feet were all were pretty good. Then, of course, over time I started having to I started once I realized that the foundational performance skill of a human being is this style of running like in other words, this is what any human being who needed to survive on their own two feet would learn pretty quickly over time because, you know, you would just feel it. And then I wanted to start studying what I called the natural selection of footwear in human cultures because I started realizing what we're creating now might be for a differently abled population. Maybe we need what populations of people who didn't have dysfunctional feet, what did they come up with? And that's where I started seeing, of course, the sandals and and other strategies to be able to it, but to bring bring some portable ground, not really like reshape the foot or control it or, you know, try to make it something it's not. But how can I extend my range, go over more complex terrain with a little bit more comfort and certainty and safety. And once I was on that role, well, the rest is history, as they say. You know, it becomes a human evolutionary history. Foot has become one of the most important features of a human being at the feet and lower legs are unique. The way we use them is unique for our species. And if you master it, it feels good because the hardware and the software software something is prepared to understand that much better. And when you start trying to solve the problem from outside of yourself, you need to tune your body in and integrate it as a free from any muffling or reducing the feeling.

Barefoot Ted:
And then as you get that feeling, then it became my understanding that it would be OK to start experimenting on how you might want to go further, are more comfortable or maybe better grip or whatever, you know, whatever. And then I started and finally and this is why I'm in Santa Barbara, California, back in California where I grew up, in that I was reconnecting actually to my literal roots, surfing and skateboarding, where you suddenly are creating platforms that you ride to basically have a great time in the world. I mean, that's that's the full circle for you, Floriane.

Florian:
And it sounds really great. And everybody who was watching you on, like Instagram or checking your website, there are so many inspirations like you already said, this recreational kind of movement and you already talked about the flow and the running. Can you maybe tell me more about this flow? How do you feel when you're running and how did you feel as you may have passed your first marathon? Right.

Barefoot Ted:
Right. Well, you know, so these days, at this very moment, one of the strategies I have and I'm going to explain that flow concept, but one of the strategies I have is I'm I like thinking about what's the smallest dose dose as in medicine, what's the smallest dose that gives the best results. I really love like the simple like what's the simplest design that solves all the problems, the best the smallest one of these kind of guys that is that's really training. It's more now for me than about a practice. And I really saw this distinction between training, which is very important. If you have a set ball that's performance based, i.e. distance time and so forth, you need to become you need to build yourself in a systematic way so that you can reach some kind of goal or place that you're trying to get to. And that's an important part of running in physical culture. Obviously, people that's an important maybe it's way over developed, in my opinion, to some degree, in the sense because of this other thing that I like to call a practice, which is something you're doing daily, but it's not so disciplined as it's just, well, you it's a practice is something you're doing daily all the time that's connecting you to your body, to your world, to the people around you. That's creating well-being. It's creating a sense of well-being in you, which is harder to quantify. And it's much more along the quality of it. And some of the features of this basic practice of mine has to do with being outdoors, making sure you're getting sunlight, making sure you're breathing, connecting to your body and your feet through movement and getting into this. And ultimately, all of those things in a balanced state is that flow state. It's like that feeling of it's instead of wearing you when you're in a flow state and I'm going to keep talking about it. But when you're in that state, you can go forever. It's not like you're wearing down. You actually have to wear down. But the point being, you're learning how to spend. More and more time in this place where everything is coming together at just the right level of intensity, at just the right level of difficulty, such that when you're in it, you're almost like that perpetual wheel.

Barefoot Ted:
So in all the things you're doing, I'm doing in my daily life, I'm trying to always just like what I'm running a long distance, always kind of like underly, evaluating where I am and trying to always find this place where I'm in that perfect equal. But I find it does is it makes me more effective in solving the problems of my daily life, too. So it's like both that one in the same time grounding me in the world and in my body, but also making it so that that whole experience is feeling better, which means I have a sense of well-being, which means I'm making decisions from a position of not like a fear based decision making process. Oh, my God, if I don't do this, if I don't do this, it's like no, it's like if I just stay here, I can go anywhere. If I just stay in this zone, I'm having a good time. Keep going is the kind of attitude. So it's that balancing act of all the systems that we are and making sure through a practice you're getting a little bit of them every day, not like, you know, I'm going to work six days without going outside and then I'll spend two days endlessly outside. I mean, that's better than nothing. I understand, but I'm fifty seven now. I want a flowing, long lasting, satisfying, nutritious movement patterns that I'm putting in my life every day. And the benefit, Florian, is, I'm telling you with great confidence, I am getting healthier and happier and indeed even stronger as I get older, doing less but more better.

Florian:
That was also some big takeaway from the book that I try to observe the other runners or every human that is like jogging, for example. And I was running on the thirty first of December and the last year and I didn't met anyone that has had a smile on his face. And I always smile and just have fun when I'm running through the woods or wherever. And those people are making this competition every time. And as you said, they are running. Yeah. Like working five days a week and then to running or six maybe working. And that's not filling those gaps. And then with high tech shoes and pain and they have to do their thing. They have to run because everybody runs and it has to be healthy and they are not even enjoying it. And it's getting like the burden somehow and they won't enjoy this active movement. And yeah, as you said, if it's an everyday habit, it's so enjoyable and pleasure and it's fun and you will always come back to it instead of getting fear, like the pain, like for the pains coming back. And it's so exhausting. And now it's quite a big thing. And in my mind that these cultures that you have already seen and still running with them, that they are always having fun with this stuff. And it's every day activity from the beginning of their life. And that's quite inspirational. So with my kids, my daughter, she is almost three and we run over the green grounds and it's so funny. And she enjoys it already and it's great.

Barefoot Ted:
Oh yeah, I can imagine. I mean, it's natural human human beings. It's a natural, it's a it's naturally enjoyable, particularly kids, when they're just starting to know this this body of ours is just such a complex, let's say, you know, moving vehicle. And for kids, I mean, I distinctly remember, you know, basically I was one of those kids, you know, constantly moving and having a good time. And so, yeah, bringing that back into the adult world, making that OK and making that a goal and helping people realize that the benefits from that and indeed so many runners, there's a lot of there's some research happening here in Santa Barbara on breathing and the benefits for you and so many runners. You know, one of the things I've been practicing is nose breathing. So, so many runners are basically the running. Not very hard, not very fast, but they look like there's a significant metabolic load on them. You know, they're they're like breathing heavy. The. Pounding the ground, they're disconnected from their body, they're even unhappy, like you said, and this is you know, this is like getting a beautiful Mercedes Benz and then putting that fuel in it, putting bad oil in it, taking not tuning it up, and then thinking that by driving it more, I'm going to make it better. It's like, you know, you've got to make sure you've got the right fuels in that thing. You've got to make sure it's tuned up. Well, then you can begin to enjoy the drive and the driving shouldn't be trying to see if you can break that thing. It should be trying to find where's that sweet spot you anyway? I mean, the analogies go on and on, but surely people need to bring into their lives a practice that will and it's going to be unique to each individual. That's the beautiful thing. It's I mean, you can borrow a practice, and that's wonderful. Some people need that structure and there's nothing wrong with that. But ultimately, so many of the traditions throughout all of time have developed these practices. They're they're often connected to spiritual or religious traditions, but they need not be. I mean, nature itself is grand enough.

Barefoot Ted:
I mean, just the miracle of being in a body. I mean, come on. It's like I mean, whether you believe in God or not, it doesn't matter. You are inhabiting a fabulous consciousness in an incredible vehicle. Something beyond your imagination is happening. It's and you have access to it and the freedom to use it. Please take the time to learn how to enjoy it and use it in a way that's enjoyable and benefiting you first and then by default, everyone around you, you know, if getting yourself in that state that you're describing where you're happier and healthier and you can enjoy smiling and you can, that state is better than these other states you're describing. So we should be focusing our attention on making sure when we're moving, we're enjoying it, but also maybe making sure that we're also not so many people are running out of this fear of getting fat. Right. I mean, that's like a major part of the western anxiety is I will be fat, therefore I will be like in this lower stratum of human beings, you know, the fat wallet. Oh, I can't be that. So working's but ladies and gentlemen, you don't have to run endlessly in order to not be fat. You might just stop fueling with some of the fuels that aren't good for human beings and spend more time feeling with the fuels that are good for human beings. Then when you run, you'll be running because you feel good and you'll concentrate on running well in a practice rather than just running yourself down and getting further and further away from your ultimate goal, which I think everyone's goal is to be healthy and happy. I mean any well operating human being. Ultimately, their fundamental software is probably focusing on trying to get into a state where they're healthy and happy and then all the procreating can come later.

Florian:
You talked about those breathing. So in my world, this is quiet. Yeah, but it's quite everywhere because I also think it's very important. And how did you discover it is not breathing?

Barefoot Ted:
Yeah, it's it's an interesting question. You know, all of my life I've been kind of a breath experimenter. When I was a little kid, I was in Southern California. Most of my neighbors, we had pools, swimming pool. So, you know, one of the challenges were how long you can hold your breath, of course. And then I early on was very good at that and swimming under water. And so that became a big part of my identity. And of course, being able to be a strong swimmer and hold your breath is obviously very important if you're going to start playing in the waves. So I was able to have that good background like that, which allowed me to kind of explore that way. So I've always been kind of already wondering and thinking about and trying to develop that skill. But it wasn't until there's a there's a very interesting book called in the late eighteen hundreds by it's called Shut Your Mouth and Breathe or something like that. It was a famous indigenous, an artist who is painting the last of the American Indians. He became so fascinated by one common trait he saw all throughout the United States and tribes that he visited, which was this children would be taught, even babies would have their mouth shut. And it was like he was so fascinated by this, he started studying it more himself. And ultimately he began to make a very strong correlation between many. Of the Western diseases and and just the the natives like seeing some white people and thinking, oh my God, look, they're breathing through their mouths, their teeth are black and their faces white. I mean, this is like perfect, like kids. You don't want to be like this. So that got me thinking. And this was it. Always coming together, maybe about 10 years ago when I really started applying all of these kind of like trying to approach understanding what it means to be a human being by studying and past cultures and older cultures and older strategies. Let's say that became a focus. And, you know, I became that's the word I like. That word becomes the concept of primal, like what gets down to some of the basic building blocks of strong, healthy humans, wherever they've existed on the planet, knows breathing is one of them.

Barefoot Ted:
And it turns out it's when I started focusing on it, one of the first things I really mastered was learning how to sleep with my mouth closed. That was a great one, because if you can do that, you don't so much in the West people, the first thing they've got to do is brush their teeth with like some harsh chemical to remove all the terrible things that have happened in their mouth. And I think that's a very bad smelling. Things are a good example of things you probably don't want sticking to you, so you've got to get it off. But the truth of the matter is, if you are bad like it and you're just going and getting them all the time, your teeth are an indicator of the whole system. The whole system to from your ass to your mouth is absolute, has living things in it. Sometimes those living things are friends, sometimes they're not. And if you get a living system that's filled with things that are not good for you, you're going to have bad teeth, bad intestines, bad stomach, bad everything. It's true. It's that simple. But, you know, getting from all that bad to where you're not bad anymore, it's like reversing bad inertia. And I, by the way, when I talked to earlier about the big wheels and getting those flywheels, those sort of energy storage devices, it's so wonderful to get a big wheel rolling because once you get it rolling, some extra energy to play with inertia also rolls into the body, both good and bad. And so when you're riding, I ride those big high wheel bicycles, you know, that has it's an antique. It has a fifty six inch front wheel and then a smaller wheel in the back. You know those nine. Right. You understand?

Florian:
I saw it on your website.

Barefoot Ted:
Ok, right. Right. So when you ride that, the first thing you learn is you don't go down anything. You can't go up because it takes the same amount of energy. Basically, you're just when you're going down, you're pushing the pedals in the opposite direction. As the wheel rolls forward and as you're going up, obviously you're going in the same direction. But that kind of inertia also goes in and out of the body. And so if you're way, way, way back behind, you know, you've been back, you've been the inertia is going the wrong direction. You've got it. It's going to take some time just to get you back to ground zero so that you can start putting positive inertia into your system. But you've got to take the step now, no matter where you are on the journey, now is a good day to start. And this simple one that I want you to tell me more about your understanding of it. But this simple, one of just adding more nose breathing and probably deeper, slower breathing into the equation is going to go a long, long way into making you feel better and giving you on the right track. Don't you agree?

Florian:
Yeah, absolutely. This is one of the most interesting topics at the moment for me. I was quite surprised that it did not was mentioned. It maybe I didn't read correctly, but wasn't mentioned in the Born to Run book because I thought it has to be very important. And I was always asking myself, like, are these Turramurra? No sproing and what did you observe when ran with them yet?

Barefoot Ted:
To be honest with you, there's a total pure people, let's say. I mean, we're living in a modern world. We're all in this together. I mean, all Tarahumara are not like super athletes that can do whatever or nor, you know, they're learning just like we are in some sense. And they're caught in the model of one typical problem. It's both good and bad, right. Is to say suddenly lots of new foods and things are entering into the world of the thought of a mother or father or mother moving to. The cities or so they don't, they're there just like everyone else now, in a sense, there are are starting to be in anywhere actually where the Western diet comes into the into the equation. All of the what Dr. Lieberman at Harvard University calls mismatch diseases. There are diseases that human beings these days have very necessarily part of the package of being a human being there. And he calls it mismatch. So people think, oh, I'm a human, therefore I'm going to have this, that or the other problem as I get older or whatever. And it's like not really. But for the Tarahumara, that same problem is happening to them where the modern foods are coming in, the sugars and the idea of, oh, my God. So they're going to be facing that trauma and drama, too. But the more traditional remedy obviously are more inclined to be healthier. And as the more they avoid those foods, the better off they'll be. But I haven't specifically paid close attention to that yet because it's been in the background of how important this is to me. It's only now recently becoming I've been doing it for so long now, particularly in my running, but I haven't been talking about it much because I haven't been focusing on I've been waiting to put together in my mind all the parts of a practice that I can share and teach in the future. And I just has didn't I'm still not totally there, but I'm just about there were and breathing will become a fundamental part of what I want to share only because my own research and my own practice is telling me, oh my God, this is a big one. And once again, just like with bare feet, it's freely available to anyone listening right now. I love that. I love that part of it.

Florian:
Absolutely. People always looking for high tech devices or website tricks and the deep secret of health. But these things, they are all they cost. Nothing. That's great. So, Ted, are you interested in telling us the story of your lunar sandals? I actually did not realize that it has connection to the terror. And may you tell us the story. I think it's a really great story.

Barefoot Ted:
Sure. Absolutely. So earlier I mentioned how I started getting fascinated with what I call the natural selection of footwear in human cultures. And as I did that research, you will soon quickly learn if you do the same. The simple sandal is everywhere on the planet. It's kind of like possibly one of the earliest human inventions because it's so fundamental to the earlier hunting strategy of essentially persistence hunting you if you run in your bare feet as a human being and you're running along and you step on, let's say something, it hurts. But so you learn how to avoid stepping on those things that hurt. But then you all and you learn how to modulate your landing and all the rest. But then if you continue, let's say you step on some mud and then you step on some grass and you start recognizing, hey, I can add a little layer here, you know, and that makes it a little easier. And then suddenly my range, I can run over this area where all other animals have to avoid because it's too sharp or too rocky or there's a certain kind of brambles or other things. And suddenly I'm adding this new element that's basically keeping me true to my natural form, but just giving me this piece of portable ground. So I started seeing that everywhere, just adding another little layer of skin or another little piece of ground and being able to bring that along with me is part of early footwear. And so I thought, wow, that's awesome. What who is doing this today? And as I did the research, of course, I found that the Tarahumara were still achieving and had had developed quite a history of being known as these great long distance runners wearing sandals. And here I am in California and there in Chihuahua, Mexico, the adventure time. So I often connected to like the first people getting to Hawaii and seeing learning about surfing and going to Hawaii and seeing like the legitimate early Hawaiian surfers and being amazed by what they're seeing. I got the opportunity to go down to the canyons, which you read about and born to run and see and be with these people who were doing this.

Barefoot Ted:
And one of them who became my friend and is my friend was Manuel Luna. And Manuel Luna ended up teaching me how to make a pair of the. Sandals and wear them my first pair ever. And from that experience, I kind of ripped, kept riffing on that experience, almost like here's an early Hawaiian showing me a surfboard, you know, made out of wood and beautiful and everything. And then I have to go back home and I don't have that wood, but I could play it. You know, I've got other materials that he doesn't have and I'll play with that and, you know, start comparing notes. So my company started basically through the inspiration of going down to the canyons. And of course, man, I named it after Manuel Luna in order to honor him. And also just the moon is such a the the name Moon. Luna is such a powerful symbol of I don't know that that that place that's both imaginative and real at the same time, I mean, in history. So I started making these sandals that I like to say in our company where we are like surfers making surfboards, we buy, you know, playing with materials and going for the feel of things on top of being able to, you know, make them ourselves. That has been an incredible process so that I and it's it's it's created a whole new area of footwear you've seen over the last 10 years. More and more of this. You know, many, many people don't even know that Luna played that role or Barefoot Ted played that role of sort of like from the FiveFingers used in many of the sandals and all the rest. And I've been able to keep my own little window to the world open. And my one of the things that I believe in through these sandals, and it's been just an amazing experience with people literally. I mean, there's nothing more exciting if you're a surfboard maker, somebody get your surfboard and then they send you pictures of the great time they're having in the waves or whatever it it's I'm telling you, it's a it's a it's it's an additional plus to the game of creating an economy. You know, you've got it.

Barefoot Ted:
If you're going to make something and somebody else wants it consensually, if we agree to trade, that's a great that's a great situation right there. But when you're making something that you love and somebody else loves it and they, you know, we trade value that way and they gain something and I mean, that's just extra. So I just that's my thing. I make sandals in a way that is hopefully encouraging people to approach life the way I'm describing. And I think that's ultimately what the the value of brands can be is. On the positive side of it is that they become instigators are tools to allow people to do what they want to do. But they are looking for kind of an excuse, you know, like can I really and sort of liuna sort of like it makes you vulnerable right away because both your foot's going to be a little more vulnerable. But also people are going to be like, hey, what does that, you know, and over time, being able to tell the story of why you do that ends up becoming a conversation starter. And then, you know, who knows, might influence somebody else to try something different and go, you know, go the different path.

Florian:
Yeah, great. And the videos also on YouTube, how you get the idea with or how this way went along with Lunas handled. And I watched it and it was really, really nice to see this, even if were only pictures. It was so connectional and I could feel how you would feel in this moment, or I could imagine in some way, because it's so strong emotional and I really like shake myself when I watched this video. I will put this in the show notes.

Barefoot Ted:
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Thank you. And then finally, you know, people often ask I just want to end with this, like, you know, how how does this you know, this experience born to run in sandals barefooted, how has it and how is it positively negatively influencing the native people of the copper canyons? That's been an interesting question in my mind all along. Like how what can we offer? To the detriment, of course, if they're starving or have no water, that's like, you know, back in the 90s and early 2000s, there was some serious issues along those lines, like literally people were having trouble surviving because if they don't have rain, they don't have life. It's you know, they're subsistence farmers. However, when they have rain, they're actually doing pretty darn well. I mean, you know, they're big areas that they are able to farm and do some of the things they do. So when the when the weather conditions are right, Robert Moody can live forever in the same way they are. But one of the things that I got inspired recently, and it's we're finishing up a fundraising. Drive for it in, it's called the Army, it's a it's a grassroots boutique through a cultural education program that the governors of the total amount of people all voted for this guy to develop is a robbery Turramurra educator. And they're developing curriculum for schoolchildren who are, you know, just like I was mentioning there in the modern Oberto. And some of them, they go to school and they're not being taught their language or their culture. And the United Nations made a recommendation about 10 years ago that indigenous peoples have the right to have their own language and culture is taught in. If they have to go to school, those things should be taught there. So this guy in this group called the Army, which in English means inner awakening there. They've developed a legitimate cool and grassroots program to go into the classrooms where in some cases where many kids have been displaced into the city, whatever, and bring in these new tools about their culture, their medicine, their dance, their traditions, their language. It's super interesting to me. And I I've become kind of like a small spokesperson for that group through a nonprofit group called True Messages Dog.

Barefoot Ted:
And anyway, I just wanted to end with that little bit of information because it's so inspiring to see, I think, other indigenous peoples it's about the Tarahumara have come up with a with a a curriculum and a process that might actually end up influencing other people outside of their own community, their own tribe. So I think that's so cool that they felt compelled to do something about what we see that, you know, there are some things in modernity that we love and we should appreciate our closer connection and our ability to share has never been greater. And they have things they want to share, too. And this is one of them.

Florian:
Sounds really great. I saw the project didn't took a deep look, but I will. Absolutely. And every listener can support this project. And thank you for the information about it. So I have one last question. It's about California. Why does Arnold Schwarzenegger does not. Well, do not Arnold.

Barefoot Ted:
Yeah, it's a good question. I think he probably needs more help than we than both of us combined. I think he's he he needs he needs to come and spend some time with Barefoot Ted, and we can solve that problem right away.

Florian:
Okay. So, Ted, how can any listener out there to take contact to you and how can we find you? Yeah, you

Barefoot Ted:
Know, I'm on the interweb barefoot. Ted Dotcom is kind of a a website that I kind of monitor and maintain. And then of course, I'm I'm more and more now playing with the social media because I see that as a way to share my message and also have fun. You know, it's kind of like fishing. You know, I'm having fun and I'm having fun. So barefoot underscore Ted on Instagram and I think and yeah, the Instagram is a pretty good one. I like sharing little things every day as a almost like part of my practice. And I think sometimes that just radiates. I think sometimes the good energy we can develop in ourselves is like radiates and can positively influence other people. And obviously I've gained a lot from other people, from their insights and stories, and I'm wanting to make sure now that I'm getting older, I feel like, yeah, I've got things I want to share and I'm going to do a better job of sharing it. So storyteller barefooted, great tool.

Florian:
Well, to follow you as also you you don't even know me and I just ask you for a podcast. And you said, yeah, of course, let's do it. So thank you for being here, Ted. I wish you a great day. Out in the sun, out in the waves, out in the cold and the heat and breathing and really, really thank you for your time and opportunity to talk about all these things today.

Barefoot Ted:
You're welcome. Here, I'll end with this little song I made up. It goes like this. It's gonna be another great day to day, just like yesterday and tomorrow. That is a good mantra.

Florian:
Yeah, we will save that.

Barefoot Ted:
All right. Right on, man. Thank you, Tip. Thank you so much.

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